Yuk it up, fail Troll...

Obviously no one chiming with more 'me too I know for a fact' remarks on the subject of weapon handling, game weapon position and camera thus far have been trained in, heard of, or read about resting the butt of a rifle on sternum as an alternate and desirable weapon hold (and therefore think it's invalid).

Just as obviously none of you have been in any modern free-world military force after 1962, have held or fired a real firearm (and knew what you were doing), and you utterly fail at basic research skills and objectivity...

Read: TT 23-71-1, the U.S. Army's training manual for rifle QK from 1971; the system has been in and out and back in training fashion in the U.S. Army for decades and is now 'back in'. The SAS, and SASR train in the method and have since WW II, though it's not the preferred weapon hold of all shooters, many perfer and employ especially in CQC...

FIA no longer allows for disclosure and printing of current TT Manuals, and the UK equivalent never has; but a little searching will get you all the information you're looking for; if you're honestly interested...

The bottom line is weapon hold, right or left handedness should have absolutely no bearing on camera symmetry for ready-aim and aimed weapon positions (only one is supported in TC:E), and the Counter-Strike weapon positions are only correct if you're using ridiculous panamorphic camera scale, or your player model is supposed to have shoulders 1.5 meters across...

Hopefully Coroner will over-look and igonre all of this ridiculous discussion...

could you give me some links about that sternum stance because searching for it in google doesn't help me.

AK47 doesn't have that much recoil.
I have shooted AK47 equivalent guns akimbo.
Full auto, if it really matters.

And I'm a skinny and small innocent boy.
Well not innocent, but still.

Assuming that you have no idea what three gun is, I will assume you know nothing about weapons and shooting. Have fun with google.

You may think I am some kid on the internet who has never fired a rifle. I, unlike you, am far from being an "armchair general." In fact, my entire family has served proudly for the U.S Army, my uncle recently retiring from fifteen years in the Special Forces, a veteran of both Desert Storm, and the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or I could ask my cousin, we graduated together, I went off to college to get my engineering degree, then join, him going straight in and he is now a Ranger set to deploy to Afghanistan for the second time. I am a lifetime member of the NRA, and I am an avid shooter

I am far from being a troll, I just hate 15 year olds who think that they know everything about everything, and like you said, they haven't even fired a rifle aside from COD.

Now that being said, you cannot take manuals from the seventies and suddenly assume that is what everyone uses, because frankly, I feel that you are retarded, and falling as far down as draganathan...

Oh, and to prove my point, here is a few pics of my cousin firing an EBR, notice there is no "sternal hold."





And if you still don't believe me, fine. I have no need to show up some flamer on the internet.

You claim that the 'sternum' hold exists therefore it is your burden to support your argument with proof. We shouldn't have to research to find something that you claim to be true as we may misinterpret your meaning.

Again...
Sources, sources, sources. Until you shed a single link/source, I do not believe a single word that comes from your mouth.

this dont have to be realistic but playable so i dont care if the sternum hold is used at all, i like that TCE dont have crosair this makes you think when to walk aiming or while not if your weapon at lowered stance aims to the center this defeats the purpose of no crosair.

if it isnt possible to hold your weopon infront of your face 12 o clock, than it isnt possible to see the aimed view like this:
\
because thats holding your gun infront of your face, 12 o clock,
in otherwords it is possible to hold your gun in the center"exactly in the middle"

by the way there is allready a feature to set your gun more in the center however it is not exactly in the center"in the middle" its a bit crooked.

@Rang3r: why is everyone that have an own opinion necessarily a retarded? you dont have to be anti social.

You're making multiple assumptions based deductive fallacy a common mistake made by people posting on forums:

1) That if someone does not make the effort for you to prove your assumption is wrong, or you can't comprehend the proof continuing with your assumption is correct -- ergo 'I'm not going to learn algebra it makes no sense, I can see the earth is flat'.

2) Your second deductive fallacy (which is also based on a defecitve premie of the definition of proof) is the assumption that the internet is a good source of factual information, or that 'proof' can be sustained by referencing something on the internet.

3) Your third deductive fallacy is that I actually am somehow invested in or actually care what you believe in... Let me set you straight, you could pray to the Moose Peinus and I could care less...

Similarly Rang3r1_v2 makes several ad hominem attacks and arguments based on fundimental attribution assumption errors and is obviously not in the least interested in the truth or consequences of what he carries around in his head, or how it got there.

Moreover this digression is immaterial to any informed constructive discussion regarding game camera, scale and weapon position as seen in games -- which as was pointed out earlier is a moot-load of work not worth pursuing anyway.

It's a fair bet that the rapid down-hill slide of this thread in a voyage to the bottom of the barrel, and igornant bickering is going to have a strong positive effect on Coroner's enthusiasm to share and discuss his work here... Good work, and another sincere outstanding effort on the mature constructive discussion from the Fans of True Combat!

Hey Dragon thanks for summarizing everything i said in my last posts. That it should be slightly to the right or left based on your handed.

Also Hoak.... dude can i ask that you not come out of no where for such a long period of time and start insulting people that helped make many custom packs for tce. Also stop insulting people who are contributing to the life of the community. You maybe have been around since the beginning like Diane said, but how come no one has seen u play in the past 2, 3, or even 4 years on this dying game. (atlest i havent seen you or even heard of you) Soon as coroner comes up with something you pop up. You may have the developers as friends but you contributed to nothing in keeping the community going with this dying game. I didnt see you make any maps? I didnt see you make any weapons like Ranger does? I didnt see you anywhere in any .pk3 file as a helper for tce. So as far as my concern goes ur a smart guy who spits stupid words. Only thing i see coming from your posts are insults at calling peoples ideas based on "Fallacy" Calm down and go have a beer. Maybe that will take the pressure off of being a prick to others.

Cheers!

Hoak can you actually prove what you are saying?
This discussion would have been over if you could actually have som kind of proof of what you are saying.
That would be much easier then what you are doing now.

A much faster way for you too prove your point instead of all these long responses would have been.

"drago... is actually right there is something called the sternum stance where you place the weapon towards your sternum. (links)"

You are the one keeping the discussion alive by not providing us with the info necessary

Funny how it derailed from, Cool! Coroner's back! to bickering about the animations, lets just keep our fingers crossed that something becomes of his newfound interest.

hoak dont bother, really,

"dont argue with stupid people - they will only drag you down to their level and beat you due to experience."


is a fitting quote for most of the tce-forum posting population

Ahh, to be young and naive again. Maybe you should fix the many spelling errors before you try to prove a valid point, or in your case, one that is quite dead in the water.

xD ranger!

Yes indeed lets keep fingers crossed for coroner. He'll do whats needed.

Hobo jump off the bandwagon.

Excuse me, I don't need a lesson in debating. All I'm asking for is a simple link to some source for which is proves your claim. The link can be anything. A link to a scanned page from a book, a link to a book, a link to a site, anything for goodness sake I have no preference.
In any school or educational institution at any level you NEED to prove your claims by SUPPORTING them with SOURCES. I'd expect the same from you as you seem to be quite intelligent. Its not even that hard but yet you are running from it as if your claim has no evidence to prove its existence.

Stop hiding behind your big words and debate theory. Get a source, show us, and prove us wrong. Its not hard, but you just don't seem to get it.